diff --git a/THOUGHTS.txt b/THOUGHTS.txt
index c97d68ec..998a9747 100644
--- a/THOUGHTS.txt
+++ b/THOUGHTS.txt
@@ -5068,3 +5068,11 @@ depend on the watcher.
 When adding services to the default bundle (wherever that happens, I
 no longer remember) we need to check if the service has a controller
 and add that instead of the service itself.
+
+s6-ipcclient -v /run/devout.sock  sh -c "echo subsystem=tty attrs.idVendor=12d1 >&7; cat <&6 >&2"
+
+Sun Jun  9 22:55:05 BST 2024
+
+services which depend on services that have controllers should not be
+added to default bundle, otherwise they will try to start the controlled
+service before its ready